Tshwarelo Hunter Mogakane
Pretoria - Forensic investigation consultant Paul O’Sullivan had a meltdown during an interview by SABC Morning Live anchor Sakina Kamwendo, blasting her for demanding clarity on his possible involvement in the Phala Phala saga before abruptly ending the interview.
O’Sullivan alleged that former spy boss Arthur Fraser implicated him in his letter to the Hawks, claiming that Fraser “simultaneously” gave it “to his chosen friends in the media”.
However, the document used by the media was attached by UDM president General Bantu Holomisa in his submissions to the Section 89 independent panel. The three-member panel has been tasked with weighing evidence to determine whether President Cyril Ramaphosa had an impeachment case to answer.
The Fraser letter implicating Ramaphosa’s special adviser Bejani Chauke, O’Sullivan and others was shared on the UDM’s website as an annexure for the attention of panel leader Justice Sandile Ngcobo and his colleagues.
According to Fraser’s letter, O’Sullivan allegedly assisted Chauke and Ramaphosa to trace suspects alleged to have broken into the farm, resulting in them being tortured and kidnapped.
Ramaphosa has not denied the burglary, but he publicly indicated that while he did not report the matter to any police station, he had tasked his head of the Presidential Security Unit, Major-General Wally Rhoode, to follow up.
The president also said the $4 million (about R73m) amount that Fraser had quoted as stolen was incorrect.
Ramaphosa has yet to clarify how much was stolen, and has until Thursday to answer questions from the independent panel.
Yesterday, O’Sullivan was interviewed by the Morning Live team after the Pretoria News reported about it last week.
Kamwendo asked O’Sullivan when he first became aware of the burglary. He answered that he became aware of it in June. That was when Fraser opened a case against Ramaphosa at the Rosebank police station in Johannesburg.
“The first time I knew about it was when other South Africans knew about it. It came up in the media. I think it was in June this year. That was the first time I knew about it … I had no knowledge whatsoever. I didn’t even know Phala Phala existed,” said O’Sullivan.
He added that he knew Ramaphosa had a farm but did not know its name or where it was. The farm is in Waterberg, Limpopo.
O’Sullivan told Kamwendo that he was on holiday but decided once he had returned to South Africa he would come after Fraser for defamation.
He further claimed Rhoode was drowning in debt before he suddenly handed Fraser footage of the Phala Phala burglary.
“He (Rhoode) needs to explain why he gave the video of the break-in that took place at Phala Phala to Arthur Fraser. What’s it got to do with Arthur Fraser?” he asked.
Kamwendo wanted O’Sullivan to tell the public whether he was 100% certain that Rhoode “leaked” the footage to Fraser.
“I’m not saying he leaked it. I’m saying he gave it to him,” he said.
The interviewer pressed O’Sullivan to explain when it was that he started investigating Rhoode and found out that he was in debt. She also asked him to state how much Rhoode was given to clear his debts.
“I’m not discussing the amounts because I don’t think it’s appropriate to do that. He was in debt.
“He was heavily in debt … And now suddenly he doesn’t owe anybody money; it needs to be investigated because if a person has cash, they need to explain where it came from,” he said.
Kamwendo asked O’Sullivan when he became aware of Rhoode’s debts, to which he repeated the June period.
“So, before that point, you were not aware of this and you didn’t know Major-General Wally Rhoode; the fact that he was closely working with the president in his capacity as the head of the president’s security detail? You didn’t know that?” she asked.
O’Sullivan said he had no idea as it wasn’t his business and he hadn’t thought of looking at it.
“So, it became your business when he implicated you? When did it become your business?” she asked.
“Excuse me! Who do you think you are talking to? You are not asking a question, you are trying to implicate me. If that is the way you are going to carry on, we shouldn’t continue this discussion.
“I’m not going to have people, whether they are criminals or journalists, trying to implicate me. So, if you come with any more dodgy questions, I’m closing this call,” said O’Sullivan, before dropping the call on the anchor.
Kamwendo said it was her right to ask the questions she was posing to O’Sullivan.
“Unfortunately, as you heard there, Mr O’Sullivan is not interested in answering any further questions,” Kamwendo told viewers.
Meanwhile, political parties the UDM, EFF and ATM have made submissions to the independent panel, explaining why Ramaphosa should face impeachment.
Among their assertions is that whether the president declared his business interests at Phala Phala or not, he was in violation of the Constitution, which stipulates that Cabinet members should not do any other paid work. They also contend that the South African Reserve Bank (SARB) has written to Ramaphosa asking him to explain the foreign currency found at his farm since it has to be declared.
“The evidence gleaned from the Reserve Bank letter is by default also serving as evidence of tax evasion by Mr Ramaphosa in that millions of dollars that the SARB is asked him about as detailed in its letter dated 30 August 2022 also means the declarations in terms of the SA Revenue Service were not made,” said ATM president Vuyo Zungula.
Last week, O’Sullivan told this newspaper never “to bother contacting” him again.
Pretoria News